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    In what way an ELH differs from japanese haiku ?

  • #2
    This is a pretty deep question with a long answer. First of all I will say that neither the English language haiku nor the Japanese haiku are monolithic genres that are consistent within themselves. So are you asking how contemporary Japanese practice compares to contemporary English, or are you looking at traditional Japanese haiku and orthodox haiku in English? The answer really depends on what styles you’re interested in comparing.
    ghost cave i brush aside the dharma of a lobster god

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    • #3
      If you are into a linguistic perspective, you might like:

      From 5-7-5 to 8-8-8: Haiku Metrics and Issues of Emulation -- New Paradigms for Japanese and English Haiku Form

      http://research.gendaihaiku.com/metrics/haikumet.html

      And the sites:
      http://research.gendaihaiku.com

      http://gendaihaiku.com


      and

      https://livinghaikuanthology.com/poe...ing-haiku.html

      may be good shortcuts to knowledge.

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      • M.S.Chintak
        M.S.Chintak commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you for the links, the question I put here as a general query to gain some deep knowledge about the changes that have been taken place in haiku writings right from traditional to current day's modern writings

    • #4
      In general terms obviously the teikei (575), kigo, and kireji are all cultural-linguistic products that can’t be translated with 100% fidelity, so in English haiku is by default going to be very different than Japanese haiku simply from structural differences in the languages. Add that to aesthetic and broader cultural norms and new ideas that are unique to English language haiku, and the gulf is pretty deep.

      the more liberal conceptions of Japanese haiku that stretch meter, have non-seasonal haiku and use a modern modernist or postmodern aesthetics allow for there to be greater consilience between the traditions, but ultimately the differences remain significant.

      There are people who say you can’t write true haiku outside of the Japanese language. They’re not wrong per se, but it depends on how you choose to define haiku. In a broader sense, sure, we can make our own idea of haiku that attempts to catch a certain essence of the original. 😅
      ghost cave i brush aside the dharma of a lobster god

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      • M.S.Chintak
        M.S.Chintak commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you Clayton, for the insight! Now a days I am seeing lots of versions specially in haiku other than ELH , no body seems to adhere with the Japanese aesthetic, that's why I thought it may be right to get some insight on the subject from discussion , hence I posted my query here.

    • #5
      Well, I think there are many different aesthetics in Japanese haiku, and many different elements of the Japanese haiku that people are drawing from. So while I agree that there are definitely people who are not very informed about Japanese haiku writing haiku in English (informing them is a major goal of this website) at the same time, perhaps sometimes people who are very informed are coming from a space where the Japanese aesthetics are internalized and they are moving in new directions with a strong base understanding of haiku. It’s hard to tell just from the poem on the outside whether or not the author is well informed.

      If you see a poem you don’t understand as connecting with haiku tradition being called haiku, maybe asking questions to the poet is the best way to understand their approach to haiku and how their work connects to the genre. Most will happily explain their approach and philosophy if you are genuinely inquisitive about their own aesthetics rather than accusing them of ignorance or attacking their work as “not haiku.” It’s all about how you frame your inquiry.
      ghost cave i brush aside the dharma of a lobster god

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      • M.S.Chintak
        M.S.Chintak commented
        Editing a comment
        Correct! That's the right way to inform and be informed.
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